The NDA has lifted

Jaleika's picture

If you'll excuse me, I now need to reserve a character slot for ADORABLE FEMALE PANDAREN.


Tartare's picture



I'm race changing every character.

More news on Mists

Jaleika's picture

Now that I'm done making excited noises only dogs can hear, here's the rundown on the press release from MMO Champion.

And for Kib, news on new Druid glyphs in Mists from WOWInsider:



I didn't spend a lot of time actually playing a druid, but I did hear a bit of interesting news while I was playing other classes, so I hopped onto my premade druid to find out for myself. I was able to confirm that, yes, there are some minor glyphs druids are going to absolutely adore. Here they are:

  • Glyph of Stars: Transforms your Moonkin Form into Astral Form. This glyph essentially makes your character appear as a spirit instead of a moonkin. You look very nearly like you do while dead -- but people can see you this time. And your armor, for that matter.
  • Glyph of the Orca: Transforms your Aquatic Form into an orca. This one is pretty straightforward. Remember those orcas in Northrend? Yeah. Much better than your weird snarling rubbery seal.
  • Glyph of the Chameleon: Gives you a random appearance when you shift into Bear or Cat Form. Essentially, this one gives you a random coloring every time you shift. Great for breaking up the monotony of locked-in bear/cat coloring.
  • Glyph of the Stag: Transforms your Travel Form into a stag that other players can mount. Yes, that's right. Your pals can ride you while you're in Travel Form, and you're also a stag instead of the clearly-inferior cheetah.
  • Glyph of the Tree: Lets you transform into Treant Form.


. . . I don't know what that last one means.  Return of permanent treeform?



Tranquility's picture

I'm pretty sure a cheetah could run down and kill a stag. Especially if it's weighed down by a passenger.


Just sayin'.



Also -


The Tillers faction will let you run your own farm! The farmer's market will provide daily quest to improve your farm every day, you will be able to clear plots of land and plant things like cooking ingredients, herbalism nodes, gifts for NPCs to build your reputation... etc.


So now we've got.. what, Pokemon battles for the non combat pets, and what sounds like the bastardized offspring of Farmville and Harvest Moon for another minigame?

well, we already had plants

jak3676's picture

well, we already had plants vs zombies.  Now I'm just waiting for a good tower defense mini-game.  Or maybe they can imbed Flynn's remade space invaders  :)

Farming was my favorite thing in LotRO

Jaleika's picture

I'm actually really excited to see it coming to this game, too.

The cheetah form is a 6-10

Tartare's picture

The cheetah form is a 6-10 year old placeholder form that druids weren't supposed to have in the first place. Glad to see it go. Same with the ridiculous deformed walrus swim form. Yes please.


Also, for the farming, I think more of LOTRO's farming craft skill than anything else. It's relaxing fun.

Well I'm thinking

Melindra's picture

the Glyph of the Tree changes you into three treants? Like the treants Moonkin can call up.  So you can then be harvested by the Tillers?

Ah the weird snarling seal :) So ugly I'm almost fond of it.


kibito's picture

Glyph of the Chameleon sounds cool. I'd prolly get glyph of the stag for shits and giggles too.


Samm I can't believe you forgot to mention the Election Campaign for Leader of the Horde! A Basic Campfire 2012!!! (The final patch is Horde and Alliance kicking Garrosh out)


Tranquility's picture

Yeah like we never saw that coming..


Why can't the Alliance have a raid on their city? So far they've had The Undercity and now Orgrimmar getting attacked, I wanna set fire to Darnassus.

you know why...

kibito's picture

The Alliance would emo rage so hard all the servers would break at once. And what's all this BS painting the Alliance as the good guys in MoP? Are we back to Alliance is good and Horde is evil crap again?


Tranquility's picture

Varian's such a peaceful and gentle king.

To tell the truth

Jaleika's picture

I am honestly surprised we aren't raiding both a sha-possessed Varian and Garrosh at the end.  Although they keep trying to work Varian into the Alliance Warchief and some crap, I guess they decided they're going to force him down the Alliance's throats some more.

I'll settle for Garrosh's tiny peanut head on a pike.

No, Alliance is just so

Cile's picture

No, Alliance is just so boring they can't even invent good villans from them, that's why all the stories take place in horde cities.

Horde isn't evil, just Garrosh, that's why Horde is raiding him as well. I am personally all too eager to kill Garrosh myself, but at the same time it just smacks of another 'We have an NPC in the game with a personality. Quick! lets make him evil and have the players kill him.' (*cough* Illidan) Yes, Garrosh is a duche, but he's also a Hellscream. Thrall could have come back and they could have done something more interesting than kill him off.

Also, playing through the new cata zones, I think Sylvanus is climbing the batshit crazy evil ladder faster than Garrosh is. Which expansion will we be killing her?

I am pretty impressed so far.

ringthree's picture

I am pretty impressed so far. :)

Super Excited

Tartare's picture

Just about everything I've read is exciting the hell out of me.

The Good (what I'm looking forward to):

  • Re-tuned LFR roll system that is more likely to give people something useful.
  • Another character slot. finally.
  • NINE instances and three raids with a BUNCH of bosses, like the BC days. This will make things more fulfilling and burnout hopefully won't occur as fast.
  • The scenarios and challenge modes sound neat, and actually give us something more to do at end game other than the mini-games
  • The farming and pokemon "mini games", while emo-whined about by OMGHARDCORE actually sound like tons of fun, a nice distraction, and people don't HAVE to do it.
  • More armor and mounts and such that aren't just color swaps.
  • Less linear progression through 80-85, so it will be less painful to level alts.
  • Another raiseable mount (like the ungoro raptor).
  • Monks look awesome.
  • Faction dailies that give tokens that let you guy rep, pets, etc. One of the things you can get is a token that gives you extra loot rolls in LFR.
  • Scenarios reward valor points! (once again, more variety in things to do!)
  • This expansion isn't a revamp of 1-60 which was only good if you made a bunch of alts and didn't already have all the slots filled up. 9_9
  • More graphical updates
  • Complete Warlock revamp (again). Maybe this time I'll care.
  • PVP Power and PvE defense system, off the "item budget" which potentially makes you not so fucked in PvP wearing PvE gear (and vice versa)
  • More glyph changes that they say will be awesome. I hope so!
  • And of course all the fun new stuff to explore and see in a new expansion -- new NPC races (there's a bunny gorloc!) the beautiful zones, etc. etc.

The Bad (what I don't really care about)

  • The talent system changes I don't really care too much about. I understand the idea of making characters vary, but I still think there will be "best" cookie-cutter builds.
  • They're taking away "have guild, will travel". It was convenient, but now people can stop being lazy butts. ;)
  • No item squish. This would have made things interesting and have taken up less space on my screen with OMGHUGENUMBERS but it doesn't really effect me too much. And who doesn't like saying "holy shit, I just crit for nine billion!"

The Ugly: (what I dislike about the expansion)

  • No new character models for existing races (boo).
  • But they say they're "working on it" :/
  • All of my addons will break. Again.



But overall, the best thing about this expansion:



Tartare will be race changing*
Tartaji will be race changing.
Graugh will be race and sex changing.


*her name may change to reflect this. I haven't decided yet.

That is all.

I'm with you on the character

Cacciatore's picture

I'm with you on the character models, I was hoping they'd have it ready in time, they really need it.

I like the new talent system. In the current one you have the right way, many wrong ways, and pvp talents. At least with the new system, even if you pick the not "best" way by definition of theorycrafters, you're still picking something dps/survival related that can still be relevant and useful. Basically you're dispelling the illusion of choice that we have now, and giving some honest distinguishable choices.


kibito's picture

This actually give you choices, but then again I also see it becoming mandatory for ppl to "respec" from boss fight to boss fight.

I agree with Cacc too.  I

ringthree's picture

I agree with Cacc too.  I really like this system.  And it lets them make really effective and interesting talents and not just buttons or passives.

You probably will have to "respec" between boss fights, but you just go into your talent pane, use your "dust" item, then pick the new talent.

This is one of those things that really shows how far ahead Blizzard is when it comes to innovation.  Most games are still working with the Vanilla WoW model, or at best the Cataclysm one. 

yeah... that's kinda shitty.

kibito's picture

being required to switch shit out from fight to fight is annoying. and it's not the same as swapping specs. Even if you get the "dust" from a vendor and not from inscription. Just another thing to stack in your inventory not to mention how costly that dust will be and just adds to the amount of gold required for night of raiding

They said the cost of the

ringthree's picture

They said the cost of the item would be minimal. 

I personally like being able to switch up talents depending on the fight because it puts more thought into the encounter.  You are talking 6 total talents and you might change 1 maybe 2 per fight.  It's not like a full respec or anything.


kibito's picture

Seems to be another way of screwing over "bring the player not the toon" mentality they supposedly strive for.

Changing talents and glyphs

jak3676's picture

Changing talents and glyphs will be the new "consumables".  When was the last time the raid leader had to make sure that everyone had 2x stacks of mana/heath/dps potions, plenty of bandages and the correct weapon oil applied?  (answer - TBC.)  We're just swapping 1 consumable for another. 


Jaleika's picture

I'm just scratching my head a bit because the reason we don't have weapon oils, sharpening stones, or chain-chuggable potions was because they wanted to reduce the consumables that we had to go farm just to raid and they had to balance around - but they're putting new ones in now?  Even Cata released without anything new in terms of consumables from Wrath.  It actually had less of them, since scrolls stop dropping around level 80.

What he said:

Shinwaka's picture

On sync with these guys as to why I am not a fan of the new talent system. I just want to state why I am not a fan of it, so to each his (or her) own :)


Today’s Blizzcon announced many exciting things, including the removal of one of vanilla WoW’s crown jewels, the talent tree system. Completely gone. You now pick a “spec” and then get to pick one talent every 15 levels. No more points, no more trees.

I remember it being so damned impressive when the game started. Obviously many choices were crap. Obviously there would be a few “correct” builds and most other setups would be rendered moot. But it still made me feel invested in my character as I leveled, even after we knew the “correct” choice. Now all those choices are gone. Except every 15 levels, when you will pick the one correct choice (as soon as min-maxers figure out what it is for you). This is a total misstep and the wrong thing to be working on.


They just couldn’t get it perfect. They redid it and redid it, making the choices smaller each time, until ultimately the only way to perfect it was to remove it.

Sometimes I’ve worried that I’ve been too hard on Ghostcrawler and company. Turns out I wasn’t. Can you imagine how many cool new game mechanics WoW could have by now if they didn’t feel the need to incessantly rewrite the combat systems? How many rewrites does it take before they accept that there’s no such thing as perfect? What is this, six total rewrites now? But don’t worry, I’m sure they have it right this time.

I post this here not as commentary on WoW, which I don’t play anymore. I post this as a reminder to myself not to get caught up in trying to perfectly balance things. I am a balance-aholic, I admit it. And I don’t know how I’m going to avoid this fate on my own MMO.

I mean, nerfing stuff is one thing — especially during the first year that’s gonna happen as you try to get the game within some semblance of balance. And buffing underwhelming abilities is almost always a good thing, not a bad one.

But rewriting the entire advancement system from scratch? Okay, sometimes a design is a total flop, so maybe a rewrite is necessary one time… maybe. But at this point, it just feels like a cry for help. So if I get to that point, somebody please help me. For now, go help Ghostcrawler, because by God he actually thinks his latest efforts make the game better. No, for real, he does. That’s the saddest part.

EDIT: some more nuance:

There are two topics here. First of all, is the new design better than the old? I obviously don’t like the new advancement mechanics, but that’s not my big gripe.

The second, more important, topic is this: having just rewritten the talent system from scratch in the last expansion, and having finally worked out the major kinks over the past year, does it make sense to erase everything yet again in order to try something new yet again? The answer is no. There are better things for the systems designers to be doing. After each rewrite, the return on investment is rapidly shrinking.

Players aren’t quitting because they made bad choices in the talent tree. (Not anymore, that is.) The number of players clamoring for skill rewrites is at low ebb. And talent tree rewrites aren’t even particularly grabby anymore: Blizzard has played that card with every expansion pack, and a few times in between. This is no longer a good use of developer resources.

So the reason I say that Ghostcrawler is wrong is his priorities. They seem to be focused on making the existing game perfect instead of adding more stuff. With Blizzard’s manpower, it would be easy to add all sorts of new stuff to WoW: deeper and more interesting craft systems, new combat mechanics that require you to use your skills in different but familiar ways, new monsters with more diversity. Entire new classes designed to deal with the new monsters in new ways. You know, game design.

But they add very few new mechanics. Instead,they rewrite the core combat mechanics over and over. Their actions speak a lot louder than words: to Ghostcrawler and team, perfecting the existing game is more important than adding new stuff. The trouble is that nothing is ever perfect, so revisions will never end. And in the meantime, there’s no cool new stuff.

In short, I don’t believe Ghostcrawler’s priorities are smart for the long-term health of WoW at this time.



Scott Jennings:

Eric: GC once again proves he is not interested in the journey 1-90. The current system means you get something new every level. For me that is an important part of the game. Without it – why use level in the first place?

Me: This is what leapt out at me. Level 90 raiding grognards see the system proposed and think “Cool! I get cool new toys!”. New players will only get rewards every 15 levels. When WoW shipped it was every level. With Cataclysm it was reduced to every other level. It really smacks of “we’re lazy and don’t want to come up with discrete rewards during the levelling process because we raced through it on our 14th character with all-heirloom gear anyway”.

I can't approve of people pretending they are anywhere near Blizzard's shoes

Both Eric and myself have more experience in the game industry then 99% of the people working on WoW. I think we've both earned the right to an opinion on game design and production, thanks.


Eric Heimburg

Eric has over a decade of experience as a Senior and Lead Engineer on such products as Asheron’s Call 2 as well as being Producer for AC2. In addition, he has impressive credentials as an MMO systems designer, most recently for the upcoming MMO Star Trek Online

Scott Jennings (game designer)

In 2001, when Jennings lost his job due to the dot-com crash, he was hired as a database programmer by Jacobs' company, Mythic Entertainment, makers of Dark Age of Camelot. He developed the Camelot Herald.

Once he began working for Mythic, Jennings decided he could not continue writing for his Lum the Mad site. It subsequently had its name changed to and was maintained by volunteers for a time, but eventually closed.

Also in 2001, Jennings started a new blog, Broken Toys,[5] which he infrequently updates about random subjects sometimes but not always relating to online gaming. Work from previous blogs is hosted in a separate archive.[6]

In 2005, Jennings published the book Massively Multiplayer Games for Dummies.

On February 17, 2006, Jennings left Mythic and began working at another MMO company, NCsoft in Austin, Texas.

August 13, 2008 was Jennings' last day at NCsoft, having been let go as part of corporate refocusing.[7] According to his blog, Jennings will begin working on a game called Webwars with John Galt Games.[8]

In 2010 Jennings returned to NCsoft as a contract developer and has since converted to a regular employee.

[quote]Both Eric and myself

ringthree's picture

[quote]Both Eric and myself have more experience in the game industry then 99% of the people working on WoW. I think we've both earned the right to an opinion on game design and production, thanks.[/quote]

I have no problems with people criticizing the new system.  Some people like more choices even if those choices aren't relevant (e.g. the American political system, LOL) but these guys seem to be the most arrogant douches ever. LOL

Their "more experience in the game industry than 99% of people" comes from some of the worst games that have been developed in the genre, being leveled at a company that maintains 10 times the peak numbers they have ever seen.  And their criticism is that they are being "lazy"?  The Star Trek MMO?  Getting fired from NCSoft to only come back as a contractor so he could work for is old position back?  These guys are definitely NOT the winners of the MMO industry.

Like I said, don't take that to mean that you shouldn't have an opinion on the new system or that I am saying your opinion is wrong, but these guys just sound like butt-hurt douche bags.

Honestly, the logical reasoning behind the new talent system is so fundamentally true and a refreshing vision of the genre that it can be scary to people used to the old system.  Real choice is something that everyone in the genre is trying to achieve and this may be the first real attempt at a system that provides such a real choice.

Calling them butt-hurt douche bags

Shinwaka's picture

because they've criticized Blizzard (their opinion) is callow. I would think anyone who has years of MMO programming experience under their belts has more than earned the right to form an opinion on the subject. (just like anyone here in his or her job field of choice). Scott Jennings didn't just work for NCSoft, he also worked for Mythic for a number of years as well as writing a book on the subject. As far as him being fired and being hired back, from what I understand this is quite common with gaming programmers of today.

So yes, I would say they both have more experience than 99% of the people out there. Obviously you disagree with them which is fine. I posted their responses (as well as their credentials) because they stated their dislike for the talent system more eloquently than I could.

Read it again, they didn't

ringthree's picture

Read it again, they didn't say they had more experience than 99% of people.  They said 99% of people working on WoW.  Thats a huge statement coming from people that have only made games that would pretty universially be failures compared to WoW.

Their "eloquent" statements about the new talent system amounted to "it's lazy", and ignored the logical reasoning behind doing it.

You know...

Emrys's picture

Bob Dylan would be pretty universally considered a failure compared to the Backstreet Boys if all you're looking at is sales, but if he said something about music I wouldn't just write him off due to that fact.

I'm not going to sit here and

Shinwaka's picture

keep arguing, I put up a rebuttal saying they have a solid opinion (which I agree with) on the subject as opposed to most of us.

My favorite talent tree system for WoW happens to be Burning Crusade (Lich had a few nice things as well). Anyhow I'm done with this subject.

yeah don't try to agrue with polly

kibito's picture

he's a fuckng debate coach. Which means he basically does this for a living. But, if either of you like I will kick him square in the nuts for you next time I see him. :D


Shinwaka's picture

Wow, very slick looking :)

I keep hoping that they'll reconsider screwing with the talent tree for Mists.





I love everything about it! 

Rejad's picture

I love everything about it!  Except the furry bit.  They should never be encouraged to leave their reservations we set aside for them on Second Life.

The whole "furry" thing is a

Tartare's picture

The whole "furry" thing is a fun thing to use as a joke, but honestly animal characters don't really enter into it.


Furry is a relatively recent thing that cropped up in the mid-90s in a particular social group, and really only has its reputation and popularity because of the internet (thanks again, internet!) Before that, anthropomorphism existed throughout history and into pop culture and appeared in a variety of fantasy, cartoon, and science fiction. In comics they used to be called "funny animals" (By definition, Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse are what people today call "furry")

I was into funny animal comics long before furry, with no desire to jerk off to Disney's Robin Hood. So, I tend to just think of them in a pre-furry way. As cute and/or awesome animal people. :) I wish more people did.



Like Waka.





You knew that was coming.

Besides, pandas are no less "furry" than worgen or tauren.


kibito's picture

b/c if you didn't mention waka I was :D


(No subject)

Shinwaka's picture

jesus waka.

kibito's picture

Put on a fucking shirt, you dirty bastard!

I bet your drooling over it

Shinwaka's picture

right now, admit it :)


kibito's picture

You gut is quite distrubing


Kassia's picture

about to race change everything to red pandas.

favorite animal ever + a playable race = omgyesplease


I like red pandas too :)

Shinwaka's picture

They look like some kind of  raccoon/ferret hybrid.

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